I am wondering if anybody can tell me what they think of Photoshop courses/training as opposed to being self-taught - particularly in terms of working towards a career in Graphic design (either part-time or full-time or freelance).
Thus far, I have basically just learnt Photoshop on my own - through observing other PS artists work, tons of practice and some previous work as an artist in other mediums.
Do you have any recommendations for somebody wanting to get into graphic design and rely heavily on Photoshop etc as part of earning an income ? Are there other programs I should learn on top of PS 7 ?
mymac
I took a class or 5 in college. It helped with just learning basic stuff. The best learning I have accomplished is from participating and observing battles. If someone does something that I don't know how to duplicate, I ask. Usually (around here, anyway) people will gladly do a tutorial. Experimentation is a great teacher.
as far as programs to know, I would say:
Photoshop Illustrator or Freehand or both Quark or InDesign - layout programs If you plan on doing any type of web work, I would learn Dreamweaver, or get good at basic HTML/CSS so you can start cutting other people's (read Art Director or other designer's) designs.
Those are all pretty basic things. I use those on a pretty regular basis, PS and Illustrator more than any other.
_Originally posted by Tha.Riddla _ **I took a class or 5 in college. It helped with just learning basic stuff. The best learning I have accomplished is from participating and observing battles. If someone does something that I don't know how to duplicate, I ask. Usually (around here, anyway) people will gladly do a tutorial. Experimentation is a great teacher.
as far as programs to know, I would say:
Photoshop Illustrator or Freehand or both Quark or InDesign - layout programs If you plan on doing any type of web work, I would learn Dreamweaver, or get good at basic HTML/CSS so you can start cutting other people's (read Art Director or other designer's) designs.
Those are all pretty basic things. I use those on a pretty regular basis, PS and Illustrator more than any other. **
Thanks for your reply. I was thinking of taking courses but the beginners courses are all REALLY basic - i.e. introduction to the workspace and pallettes. Unfortunately, it seems you have to take the beginner course in order to register for the more advanced classes and I'm not prepared to to do that. It would be a waste of time unless of course they allow me to challenge the course and prove that I am good enough to take the more advanced course.
Otherwise, I agree that participating in and observing these battles is a great way to learn. I am just starting out here but have already seen an improvement in my skills - i.e. learning to use layers and masks more than I did before.
I'll have to start learning Illustrator and InDesign at some point too.
Thanks again for your suggestions, Maybe we can battle sometime,
Amber
_Originally posted by mymac _ **Do you have any recommendations for somebody wanting to get into graphic design and rely heavily on Photoshop etc as part of earning an income ? Are there other programs I should learn on top of PS 7 ?
mymac **
hi 
it depends what area of graphics you want to get into and i can only talk for the UK too... the only ppl i'v met who only work solidly in PS are image retouchers at a scan/photo lab and its hardcore... i'v worked in PS for 7 years and am no way near the standard of those guys :eek. tennis is a great way of learning tho and seeing how other people create their work, but for work work i wouldn't show tennis in my portfolio
to get into graphics (as in a design job) i think you would need to broaden your skills and be able to work in freehand/illustrator (for logos, packaging etc) and/or quark/in design (for brochures/magazines etc), as well as the idea for what you want to produce for a client
instead of trying to do a course for a specific program i would look into some kind of graphics course so you get an overview of the kind of work available and what skills etc you would need? for example, in print; would you want to work on concepts or are you happy to do artwork? (getting the concept ready for printing)...
is there a college/school/evening class in your area that offers something like that?
i have to shut up now cos i'm using / way too much :p
g'luck
I'm going to move this to Design because the FAQ is mainly for forum specific stuff
_Originally posted by zip100 _ to get into graphics (as in a design job) i think you would need to broaden your skills and be able to work in freehand/illustrator (for logos, packaging etc) and/or quark/in design (for brochures/magazines etc), as well as the idea for what you want to produce for a client
What she said.
PS is great, and a mandatory tool-but it is not the main tool of a typical print designer.
Vector & page layout programs are what you need to learn first.
You also need to learn color, as print utilizes CMYK & PMS, not RGB. There is a world of difference in what you get with RGB and what will print using the industry standard.
But yes, do some 'Dome battling to get on the learning curve.
Originally posted by mymac _ Thanks for your reply. I was thinking of taking courses but the beginners courses are all REALLY basic - i.e. introduction to the workspace and pallettes. Unfortunately, it seems you have to take the beginner course in order to register for the more advanced classes and I'm not prepared to to do that. It would be a waste of time unless of course they allow me to challenge the course and prove that I am good enough to take the more advanced course. Most colleges will let you "test out" of courses. I actually skipped the basic photography classes in college because I couldn't register for them due to the massive number of people wanting to do photography because it was "cool", yet it was my major and I couldn't register because all teh classes were full.:swear: Anyway, I went to the head of the department and showed him some work that I had done. He basically told me that he wanted to see a small amount of improvement (interest in bettering myself) and then he would let me skip the basic class. I did, he did...went on to get my BFA. Take the initiative, go to the professors and let them know you want to learn. They _should understand. If they don't, offer to work as an assistant or something. get your foot in the door.
i learned when a company i worked for switched from compugraphics to a mac for typesetting. it had photoshop 1.0 and aldus freehand, and i would sneak in and play with it on teh weekends.
_Originally posted by Obscure/Renegade _
What she said.
PS is great, and a mandatory tool-but it is not the main tool of a typical print designer.
Vector & page layout programs are what you need to learn first.
You also need to learn color, as print utilizes CMYK & PMS, not RGB. There is a world of difference in what you get with RGB and what will print using the industry standard.
But yes, do some 'Dome battling to get on the learning curve. [/B]
Okay, thanks for all the suggestions. I am on the verge of buying the Adobe Premium or Standard CS suite as I currently only have Photoshop CS. However, I had thought that I should get a solid grounding in Photoshop before moving on to learning additional software.
But maybe it is better to go ahead and learn all three at the same time, and also continue to practice as much Photoshop battling as I can.
_Originally posted by StinkFist _ *I'm going to move this to Design because the FAQ is mainly for forum specific stuff
Okay..no prob. But I thought you had told me to ask my questions on the FAQ forum ?
It depends on the subject. In this case it's definitely a graphic design question
The FAQ is for things like "how to make my signature random?" and "What's the barrel all about?"
If you have a question about HTML it goes in Front End, Graphic Design goes in Design for the most part. Things with a grey area go into Projects, Theory and Miscellanea.
The Thunder Dome is a bit different because it exists for the sole purpose of having Photoshop battles. That's why arigato moved your thread.
Don't worry, you'll get used to it soon enough
Thanks, Stinky.
As far as whether to study photoshop or not, mymac, I guess it depends on what sort of person you are. If you're a self-starter with the ability to learn on your own, by all means go out and buy a couple of books and slowly work your way through all the features and just make projects for yourself for practice. That's how I did it. Same with all the graphic stuff - I went to school for Fine Art, not design.
Of course, back when I was starting out there were only two Macs in the design department at my university, and digital graphics software were not actually taught at the university/college level as a full course let alone an entire course on photoshop. Granted, I think photoshop & illustrator were only version 3 by the time I graduated let alone when I was actually in university - I started the same year Photoshop 1.0 shipped.
_Originally posted by arigato _ **Thanks, Stinky.
As far as whether to study photoshop or not, mymac, I guess it depends on what sort of person you are. If you're a self-starter with the ability to learn on your own, by all means go out and buy a couple of books and slowly work your way through all the features and just make projects for yourself for practice. That's how I did it. Same with all the graphic stuff - I went to school for Fine Art, not design.
Of course, back when I was starting out there were only two Macs in the design department at my university, and digital graphics software were not actually taught at the university/college level as a full course let alone an entire course on photoshop. Granted, I think photoshop & illustrator were only version 3 by the time I graduated let alone when I was actually in university - I started the same year Photoshop 1.0 shipped. **
Thank you for your reply ! I have several Photoshop books now and have been working my way through them by practicing various techniques and my own project "assignments". Although, I think the Photoshop battles here are going to be a major source of learning too. I spend approximately 6 hours a day minimum practicing in Photoshop.
I have a strong artistic background in that my dad is an architect. At 8 years old, I was using a drafting board and creating floor layouts and so forth as well as practicing the same line weight exercises that he had his students at the local college do. I then took a 3 year intensive arts program in High School so I have some background in composition but I now want to shift my skills to digital art and creating corporate packaging for companies as well as digital illustration.
I thought a Photoshop course might give me more of a focus in terms of what I am learning.
I am going to continue here and try to participate in as many battles as possible and I guess continue reading these books and practicing.
Not sure how easy it is to break into graphic design now. I have read about people like Anthony Robinson and Diane Fenster, Alicia Buelow,etc. who are making a living off their digital illustrations. That's the kind of stuff I am most interested in doing but they obviously have much more experience than I do.
I learned Photoshop through doing hundreds tutorials, a lot of experimenting, doing a lot of projects for myself and now started with doing battles.
And I didn't learned a thing about Photoshop @ school
My only book is "Secrets of the pro's" by McClarkson.
My Other tools are :
Illustrator, Flash, Director, Digital Camera, Cinema 4D, HTML, CSS and now busy with After Effects.
It kind of depends what area you want to go into - more print-oriented and you'll definitely need to know Photoshop, Illustrator, and Quark, at least. More web-oriented, you would be well-advised to learn Flash and at least basic front-end coding and at least one of the major wysiwyg packages like Dreamweaver. Of course, learning other stuff like 3D, photography, illustration, etc. will only increase your chances of finding steady work. If you can handle web and print you are a lot more likely to find work, in my experience.
_Originally posted by little girl _ *i learned when a company i worked for switched from compugraphics to a mac for typesetting. it had photoshop 1.0 and aldus freehand, and i would sneak in and play with it on teh weekends. *
:notworthy Photoshop 1.0 eh?
hey there mymac 
you've gotten alot of good responses already, I can only respond in giving you some opinion based on my personal experience... which is skewed a bit, in that I returned to school as an old-timer
I was also fortunate to have had a local community college which had an Applied Art & Design program [mac-based], seperate from it's Computer Science program [PC based]... this digital art program was part of the Art Department, yet seperate in many ways... the college offered three degrees or certificates in Applied Art & Design [I chose to earn all three]
the division or distinction was made with regard to Illustration, Multimedia and Graphic Design. Of course some of the course-work overlapped... as does much of the work in the design industry.
with regard to course-work in Photoshop, I was fortunate to have had two semesters of Digital Imaging [beginning and advanced]... I say fortunate for several reasons. Photoshop is [IMHO] such a rich program that one can always learn more, however, I feel fortunate to have been in a program where Photoshop was taught by a lifelong Photography instructor who taught it much like a project-oriented fine-art course... I am also quite familiar with folks who have taken the same two-semester equivalent at other schools who's curriculam was geared to the software and preparation for the Adobe Photoshop ACE certification... they learned alot about the software, yet hardly got a chance to use it creatively...
with regard to Photoshop, courses can't hurt
with regard to a career in design, courses or a degree can't hurt... but your portfolio is what will speak for itself
I was relatively old and limited with regard to time I felt I had to spend at school... I learned most of all while interning. I was fortunte to have landed an internship working in the Marketing Department at the college where I went to school... interning will give you hands-on real-world projects for your portfolio... student-work had only a limited weight in that regard, mostly because we tend to put more value on our own professional work.
with regard to course-work, here's a sampling off the top of my head: two semesters of Illustrator-based digital illustration, two semesters of Print Production for Graphic Design [page-layout, prepress, desktop-publishing, typography... my courses were PageMaker based, as was my internship at that time], I also studied drawing, visual communication, oral communication, digital painting [Painter5-based], two semesters of Director-based Multimedia Development, animation [storyboarding, and digital rendering], video production and digital video editing... that's about two years worth of school and a year interning
you know, all the time I looked for work, I never interviewed for a position which was strictly Photoshop work... although I seem to have landed in that position now... but its alot less 'design' than it is digital imaging production work. I like it because I love Photoshop.
with regard to the industry, coming from the perspective of looking at alot of ads and doing alot of interviewing... I would say you need to learn to use QuarkXPress... my refusal to use it has certainly cost me... but I am a self-proclaimed Adobe-purist
I made the switch to InDesign at the first release and participated in the last beta... I love InDesign and highly recommend you learn it. I use it daily to troubleshoot problems my coworker has with the new version of QuarkXPress.
InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop... along with Acrobat are a good strong core of applications [IMHO]... whatever direction you want to take... the next choice is in multimedia, animation, web, video [I probably have left out choices]
your choice of getting the Creative Suite is right on in my opinion... classes are good... work-experience is most valued
gotta run, hope that helps 
_Originally posted by arigato _ *More web-oriented, you would be well-advised to learn Flash and at least basic front-end coding and at least one of the major wysiwyg packages like Dreamweaver. *
Or notepad
I do everything with notepad (HTML, CSS, Javascript, DHTML, ...)
I don't like wysiwyg packages
Notepad is for people who already know the stuff, dude. Unless she has lots of books handy, Notepad is worthless at this stage.
Although you are correct, o/r, it's a good idea to learn to handcode too so you can clean up the messiness a lot of wysiwygs generate. Though I have seen a lot of people working in the industry that almost never handcode. Still, it's one of those things that you should know how to do just so you know what to do when something goes wrong, or a project gets handed to you that was done in a wysiwyg other than what you run - nothing messier than a site that's been updated by several developers all using generated code from different programs.
Well sure, knowing how to handcode is important. In fact, that's all know how to do, because I've never owned Dreamweaver, or any of that other stuff.
I have one HTML book, and that is what I draw from when I'm trying to do something online. Sad, huh?
At any rate: my point was that mymac has to learn it somewhere,
and Notepad ain't the [easiest] place to do it— unless you have
resources in-hand and time to kill.
Swift3D BABY!!
runs
dreamweaver is a good helper but i would almost say hand-coding is the best way to actually learn HTML, as dreamweaver will let you create some really crappy code.
Thank fuck nobody is using Frontpage any more, at least.
> _Originally posted by arigato _ *Thank fuck nobody is using Frontpage any more, at least. *Says who? Big company's are still using Frontpage for their corporate intranet needs beacuse it's ease of use with non-techy folks.
Trust me, I KNOW. I used to be employed by "big company".
I have frontpage and dreamweaver, but never worked with it
started with notepad and still using it ...