gah I wish I was writing this because I was going to get one... but no, a friend of mine has drilled his choice down to 2 and would like some opinions.

Canon EOS 500D with 18-55mm

Nikon D5000 with AFS DX 18-55 and 55-200 mm

He's had both in his hands and says they both felt pretty much the same, so nothing to choose between there.

I've had a look down the comparision chart on dpreview.com and they seem pretty evenly matched in terms of specs, Canon has more magic megapixels, but I don't think that really makes much diff either way - that said I'd probably go for a lower pixel density as I imagine that might lead to marginally better photos. But like I say, not much diff either way.

The Nikon does have the fold out LCD which I love about my little Canon.

Also the Nikon pack is the cheaper of the two, even though it comes with two lenses.

So within my little knowledge I'd recommend the Nikon out of these two.

But I don't know about lens quality, or how much accessories cost - is the Nikon going to end up being more expensive in the long run if he wants to upgrade his lenses?

For my money I'd be looking at a Pentax... mostly because of what Ari's said a few times about being able to pick up ancient lenses and they still work on a new Pentax DSLR, that and the bodies are cheaper than Nik and Can, and not noticeably lower quality.

But what the fuck do I know? I've not so much as held a DSLR - so what say you stoners?

Lenses are about the same between the two brands, price wise. Relatively a non-issue.

Personally, I think both models are crippled (more limited lens options), but the Canon, in this case, less so. So that would probably be my reco between the two.

get a Pentax.

Originally posted by: rogue_designer Personally, I think both models are crippled (more limited lens options)

How so?

Also, I'd like to hear any opinions about those lenses that come in the packs I mentioned, if anyone has any experience? Would it be worth just getting a body only and looking for a lens on its own, or are they likely good enough?

Probably should mention my mate here has no experience in this at all, so he won't be pushing the camera for a while. But I guess you never know, it might be the start of an obsession.

Originally posted by: arigato get a Pentax.

yeah I've been hearing that

Well, perhaps in Fuckwankistan (or wherever you are from where they only have one Android handset ) they have fewer available lenses, but the below collection available for the Canon EOS platform, seems like a decent selection to me :

I am absolutely loving my 450D. The only thing I don't like about it, is that it's not a 550D!

P~

Originally posted by: Phantom Well, perhaps in Fuckwankistan (or wherever you are from where they only have one Android handset )

:swear:

just checked the price of a few lenses... yowser... I think lens selection is going to be a non-issue for a long time :-)

The Pentax K-x looks like a good choice too... and about €150-200 cheaper than the other two. I do like a fold out screen though... but it's not my camera.

// edit - only €100 cheaper in fact

Originally posted by: DontBogartMe [quote]Originally posted by: rogue_designer Personally, I think both models are crippled (more limited lens options)

How so?

Also, I'd like to hear any opinions about those lenses that come in the packs I mentioned, if anyone has any experience? Would it be worth just getting a body only and looking for a lens on its own, or are they likely good enough? [/quote]

The kit lenses are fine for starting out with no experience. I usually also recommend getting the 50/1.8 prime (it's cheap, higher quality, and forces you to think about your shots).

The Nikon especially is crippled in that it only works (AF and AE) with certain types of Nikon lenses... whereas the higher end bodies have a wider compatibility. The Canon at least maintains AF, so that's nice.

This is a common limitation on many of the lower priced bodies.

Most users probably won't find this to be a problem. For me it is huge. shrug

Re: the fold out screen - with a dSLR, you usually don't use the screen for composing and image taking - so it's less of an issue than with a P&S camera.

AF and AE - auto focus and auto exposure?

So you can plug the lens in, but you don't get the auto control? Can you do it yourself anyway? Or is that too hard to manage to bother with?

And this applies to the Pentax too?

The thing you said about the screen.... so basically if you can't get your eye to the viewfinder you're shooting blind anyway?

re: AF and AE, correct. If you use the wrong mount lens, you have to use all manual controls... even with AF lenses... they only accept the newest forms of AF (with internal motors). So that is a bit limiting.

However, there are lots of those lenses available, and if you are not trying to use older lenses, its mostly a non issue.

This does not apply to pentax.

Re: the screen... usually yes. Eye to viewfinder is the way they are designed to be used. If the camera has live view, you can use the the LCD on the back, but most dSLRS do not have that functionality.

I reckon I'll point him at the Nikon... better price, two lenses included not just one and easy for him to buy too. Pentax isn't so readily available (i.e. in big stores), although he could order online I guess. Also, Ari isn't putting up much of a fight for Pentax :-)

Pentax:

Pentax K-7

• retails around 1100 USD.

Or the even less expensive K-X

• around $500 USD.

a lot less expensive body than comparable Nikon/ Canon offerings, and can use all Pentax 35mm lenses. Like, from film cameras. Even older ones that aren't AF. You remember, the kind where you can get really good lenses for 10-50 bucks on eBay.

Best bang for your buck on a prosumer dslr, IMO.

so Pentax's are cheaper, but the specs are pretty well matched (K-x to either the Canon 500D or the Nikon D5000). So what don't you get with the Pentax that you get with the others? Are you just paying for the brand, or is there a quality difference?

You are paying for Brand, better faster AF sensors, Creative lighting systems (advanced strobes), better selection of newer high performing lenses (with Ca/Nikon)

Pentax offers comparable image quality, build quality, and a better selection of affordable vintage/used lenses.

New lens: smc PENTAX DA 40mm F2.8 Limited $499.95 USD (from the official Pentax Imaging site)

What I bought: vintage Pentax ME (SLR)

with a vintage MF 40 mm pancake lens - which I'm currently using on my dslr

under $100 CDN, shipping included

I've purchased what would otherwise be thousands of dollars' worth of mf pentax lenses and a couple of tamrons for next to nothing on eBay.

Originally posted by: Phantom I am absolutely loving my 450D. The only thing I don't like about it, is that it's not a 550D!

P~

Naw, fuggit. In a year or two, the 550D won't be a 650D.

Originally posted by: mclarkson [quote]Originally posted by: Phantom I am absolutely loving my 450D. The only thing I don't like about it, is that it's not a 550D!

P~

Naw, fuggit. In a year or two, the 550D won't be a 650D.[/quote]

Zactly - which is why it ain't no thing but a chicken wing!

well I told him to get the Pentax K-x in the end, in 2nd place was the Nikon.

The lack of AF indicators sounds like it might be annoying, but I guess if you set it to focus in the middle you'll be ok.

And the price is sweeeeet.

Thanks all for your help with this.

Well, it's not like the K-X doesn't have AF at all... it has 11-point AF, same as the D5000.

"11 Point Wide Angle Focus Responsive 11 point wide angle SAFOX VIII autofocus system focuses quickly and accurately, and can easily track moving subjects."

I have an *ist DS and while it does have some autofocus issues in very low light, it's absolutely fine in medium and full light conditions. I'm about 50/50 with MF anyhow what with using older lenses and all (love the $20 vintage teleconverter even if it is MF) - and the K-X is much better than the *ist DS.

The only real issue I think is that on the Nikon you can choose your sensor, but on the Pentax it's automated. For the K-X, anyhow - with a K-7, you can choose your sensor.

And no, you don't get an AF indicator on the K-X but you can see what's in focus and what's not - and with the Nikon only AF-S lenses will autofocus at all.

I'm actually strongly considering getting a K-X myself, though I'd love a K-7.

Check this out, the Nikon D5000 and the Pentax K-X - virtually identical stats with the K-X slightly on top:http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp

well if I can get the money for it I'll get the K-x myself sometime (course, by the time that happens there'll be something new out anyway), but my mate has decided to go for the Nikon based on convenience - he can get it on interest free credit, whereas that shop doesn't have the Pentax (it's a dept store, not a dedicated camera shop).

Your dpreview link doesn't work btw - you have to set the comparison up yourself, but yeah, they're pretty evenly matched.

and this was just sold on ebay in Spain: http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320534197361#ht_500wt_1182

PENTAX K10D+OBJETIVO COSINA 50MM F1.8 It went for €233.50.

I missed a bargain there I think?

Funny you should mention the "by the time that happens"...

My Pentax *ist DS (about 5 years old) has some problems that will cost me nearly 400 bucks Canadian to have fixed... so I started looking on eBay and a never-used *ist DS is now available for less than the cost of the repair... including the 18-55mm kit lens. In fact, if you go back even a couple of generations, you can get a very sweet camera for about half the current top model's cost.

Food for thought.

aaaah

must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not buy lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own...

also

must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own... must not waste time looking for lenses on ebay for a camera I don't even own...

must convince the wife we need a K-x

my mate ended up getting a Nikon D90 - way out of the original price range but his wife surprised him on his birthday. The four of us went to Scotland in Aug and he was good enough to let me play around with it. I forget what lens he had with him, 18-200 perhaps? It opened to about f3 I think. I was a little disappointed with the wide DOF on portraits, I expected it to be shorter, but of course with another lens it would be a different story. Anyway... a whole lot of fun It took us a while to figure some things out, and he didn't bring the manual with him, e.g. how to control the ISO when in Manual mode, that took a couple of days to figure out. Hold down the button marked ISO and twiddle the wheels, doh. I never really got the hang of the auto focus, sometimes is focused behind the subject, mostly when the subject was very far away. And when sharing a camera and playing with Manual focus... be nice and rem to switch it back to Auto when handing the cam back.... a couple of times I did that to him, and his next few shots came out blurry

Will post some shots when I've had chance to catch up with them a bit... naturally we shot a silly amount

oh and yeah, I'm crazy jealous :(