Deaths from pregnancy and childbirth in the United States have doubled in the past 20 years, a development that a human rights group called "scandalous and disgraceful" Friday.

The report, "Deadly Delivery: The Maternal Health Care Crisis in the USA," notes that the lifetime risk of maternal deaths is greater in the United States than in [...] virtually all industrialized nations.

linky

YAY PRIVATE INDUSTRY!!!

Good. Fucking people need to stop breeding.

don't worry, it'll only be the poor that die in childbirth, no one worth worrying about or anything.

Originally posted by: Your Mom Good. Fucking people need to stop breeding.

Is there another way to breed?

Point taken

In other news the government of Quebec is now going to pay for vitro treatments for approved couples.http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100311/quebec_invitro_100311/20100311?hub=Health

It's against the law to turn away any patient for an inability to pay.

So I suppose we'll be blaming the police for murder rates next.

Lets blame the system that's struggling to cope with the problem rather than blaming the factors that cause the problem like racism, and economic conditions which require poor and middle class mothers to work on their feet right through their trimester.

Do You think social health care is going to change their ability to take a day off from work?

Good god.

Dude, calm down. Deep breath. Hold it. Hold it.

Now let it out.

whoooosh

I'm not sure who you are accusing of blaming whom. I certainly didn't mean to say that, say, doctors were to blame.

Do You think social health care is going to change their ability to take a day off from work?

While I don't believe we'll see that any time soon, it's certainly possible and in many evil socialist countries, taking time off from work to see a doctor is explicitly covered.

I highly doubt the magic unicorn of social healthcare will come with the workman rights fairy dust that will make paid maternity leave a federal requirement.

:deep breath:

I had 4 days off paternity.

my canadian coworker had 8 weeks for his.

And mine was a miracle of luck of working at the right company that actually has a policy for dads.

call me jaded.

Actually, maternity leave, maternity pay, and job retention are all federally mandated here in Soviet Canuckistan. Das get paternity leave, too, it's part of unemployment insurance.

Originally posted by: arigato Actually, maternity leave, maternity pay, and job retention are all federally mandated here in Soviet Canuckistan. Das get paternity leave, too, it's part of unemployment insurance.

As it should be here, and I believe it should be put in place before a move to a social healthcare system as a transition measure as we start to understand the impact social healthcare would have in terms of funding, corporations, taxes and small business.

But the healthcare system itself, regardless of who's paying, is only one side of the issue.

Currently laws vary from state to state, and getting fired for becoming pregnant of course can be veiled in plausible deniability.

sometime ago I read a report that showed that many of women with complicated pregnancies in lower social-economic classes had almost no pre-natal care or education. OFten times the care and education is free, but refused.

we can blame whatever boogeyman we want, but we should not ignore the fact that some people simply don't care.

oops....stumbled into a serious thread......

• backs away slowly *
• closes door *
• checks sign .... | 12s | *

hmmmmmmm

Originally posted by: persist It's against the law to turn away any patient for an inability to pay.

you are correct ... but they don't give you a lollipop and say 'this one's on me' either ...

they set up a nice payment plan ... and since the law you are referring to applies to emergency room visits, that bill will be a few thousand dollars - for a routine visit.

you can blame the woman for being ignorant of the fact that she might qualify for Medicaid ... and if that's the case (or if she doesn't qualify for one reason or another) she is faced with racking up emergency room visits that she knows she can't pay for - and face the probability that legal action will most likely be taken & wages garnished once she misses a few payments.

so as a society we are faced with the options - Medicaid (100% taxpayer funded), grossly inflated emergency room costs for non-emergency care ( a problem only exacerbated by those who default on their payments), or a partially subsidized system where the individual makes at least some monetary contribution to their care and are able to see much less expensive practitioners and specialists at regular increments throughout the pregnancy - not waiting until mid-catastrophe.

or just say tough shit - you either provide proof of insurance or a briefcase full of cash - otherwise, hit the bricks and best of luck to ya'

the way I see it, we're already subsidizing those without insurance - just at a rate several times higher than is necessary ... regardless, if we really want to find a solution, it is going to require somebody to do something they really don't want to do ... either the taxpayer or the employer

Originally posted by: oregondave the way I see it, we're already subsidizing those without insurance - just at a rate several times higher than is necessary ...

You haven't seen anything yet, dude. Major Medical assholes are already jacking rates while reducing, and in several cases, dropping coverage. I guarantee that there are people on 12stone right now that have already seen this happen, especially if, for example, they were with BC/BS and have been moved to Anthem BCBS. I feel sorry for the HMO/PCP folks (my advice to anyone reading this is to go PPO if you can, and give yourself some leeway if you just have to go to a certain Dr. Soandso)

MM sees the indecision by the feds and have already made a quick run into your pocketbook to offset the initial thrust of cost that WILL occur if national healthcare is implemented. And it's far from over. The costs will be higher right where it hurts, in your paycheck and mine, and you aren't going to get better care.

Take it to the bank.

i'm with rush. costa rica sounds great.

So what should we do O/R?

if that's the case (and it seems as though it is) ... isn't that the best argument yet for a single payer government health insurance program?

as long as MM knows they are the only game in town, they can do pretty much whatever they want under threat of higher costs or dropped coverage.

isn't this 'the good fight?'

what has struck a nerve with me this past week are the arguements over abortion-wording in the president's proposed healthcare bill

okay, so here's my understanding of the situation... in terms nobody seems willing to report except twisted in republican double-speak

the president's words: > "I laid out a very simple principle, which is this is a health care bill, not an abortion bill and we're not looking to change what is the principle that has been in place for a very long time, which is federal dollars are not used to subsidize abortions."

now here's where he gets into fucking trouble: he and the democrats spend months and months allowing the insurance industry and republicans to the negotiating table encouraging their ideas be inserted into a bill—which they had no intention of ever voting in favor of

nevertheless, republican notions and ideas were added to the bill: like government subsidized healthcare savings plans and tax-incentives to employers who will in-turn be using government money to subsidise private insurance policies

now then: in the twisted minds of folks like michigan democrat Bart Stupak, the addition of these republican ideals into the healthcare bill simply amounts to government funds being used to pay for abortions.

my question: why doesn't anyone just stand up and speak about this in simple, real terms?

the republicans say one thing while they do the opposite: the republicans have continually repeated the mantra that the democrats are trying to take over the healthcare system, trying to insinuate themselves and their values into the private healtchcare system—yet, infact, they have added the proverbial Trojan Horse into the healthcare bill... yes, if the government allows for tax breaks and subsidies of private insurance plans directly to tax payers or through employers—the government will now be able to influence healthcare policy and procedures like prenatal counseling and yes, abortion.

:finger:

fuck these slippery motherfuckers

they had control of the government for how many fucking years and didn't outlaw abortion—up or down vote, one way or another, solve the issue and shut the fuck up... but no. this is an issue you can keep bringing up against the liberals.

keep government funding out of private insurance companies hands. i repeat. the healthcare savings plans and tax breaks in this bill are a trojan horse we will never hear the end of

Abortions for some - miniature American Flags for others!

So what should we do O/R?

if that's the case (and it seems as though it is) ... isn't that the best argument yet for a single payer government health insurance program? In the abstract, on one-to-one terms yes. The problem is that the government won't be the ones actually in charge of things. MM will still run the show, they'll just be playing by different rules. Like GM does now, for example. And then...

as long as MM knows they are the only game in town, they can do pretty much whatever they want under threat of higher costs or dropped coverage.

isn't this 'the good fight?' That's just it, they HAVEN'T been able to do as they please. They can only gouge so much before a given group (read: employer) will drop them to cut costs, or change providers. Well, they used to... they expect some form of UHC to be done and they're getting in ahead of the curve. They have to be wary of Sherman as well.

Here's what's going to happen, if an unfavorable UHC plan goes through:

Govt meets with MM says "OK, you treat every single person that comes through here. We'll give you XX money in the form of taxes to cover this."

MM says "OK, XX is good for right now, but it's gonna cost us XXXX to have the staff, facilities, and depth of coverage when we pick up a few dozen million policyholders. Also, you're going to have to cough up some dough for all of the doctors and hospitals who are in this thing as well." Govt says "OK, if that's what we gotta do, we gotta do it." and then gives you a speech about how everyone has to put in to make this happen, taking care of your neighbor, etc. and your taxes jump up to the tune of the low teens, if you're lucky.

The govt can't say no, because MM could say "Sorry, can't do it, we close" and file for Chapter . If that was allowed to happen, the govt AND the taxpayers would be screwed by paying for the system to stay afloat. We'd be held for ransom, in essence. Sound familiar? It should, because some banks just did this. I like to think that the govt wouldn't allow this to happen again, but I'm not that optimistic.

The thing about heathcare is that it's not going to be a small stipend put into a virtual salvation army bucket. It's not like a kindly neighbor looking after their own. It would be like the goddamned mafia. "Hey, here's your protection... we'll just help ourselves to our premiums now... and there is no "pre-tax" draw anymore, because this IS a tax! Pow pow p-dow, fat cock for you!"

People without savings and those living paycheck to paycheck would be in trouble as well. Many people forgo insurance because they need the money. They do everything they can to stay healthy and use home remedies if they get sick. It can be damned expensive, so I totally understand. If people aren't allowed to opt out, they could be in major financial trouble.

Of course, if they are in dire need, they will get to a hospital for treatment... and the hospital won't/can't turn them down... which puts us right back the fuck on square one, at least in the terms of the people who are pissed off about having to pay for people who don't put in to begin with.

Anyone who has taken a good, hard look at the clusterfuck that Social Security and our VA system is turning into should be very concerned about whatever happens in this regard. The government does a lot of great things, but there are no small mistakes to be had here. They will be large, and they will be ugly, if the wrong plan is passed.

There are several ways that UHC could work, but they haven't put it out there yet.

//EDIT
The present admin has no intention of passing anything that will truly put the MM's in their place..no fucking way..

Sadly, that is true. I've lost absolutely all hope. :(

The best congress that money can buy.