Hi guys... been a while since I've posted in this forum... in fact it's been a while since I've had anything to do with Flash.
Anyway, I'm consulting to a NFP on the development of a (rather large Facebook) game. The funding path requires us to use a university in Indiana for the game development and the team is insisting on using Silverlight for the build as the backend will all be .NET.
I am concerned about plugin penetration and the challenges associate with trying to get people to play and share with friends when (roughly) 40% of users will need to install something. Ultimately this needs to work on Smart phones as well.
To me it seems insane to use Silverlight over Flash (or even HTML5).
Any thoughts on whether Silverlight is a viable tech for Facebook development? I have my own opinions/positions but would like to hear form you guys.
Flash for sure.
I'm not a big facebook user, but I have never come across a Silverlight app.
However, my sister company is big into Facebook game dev; I'll ask the nerds there and see what they say.
Cool.
Most of the devs I've spoken to laugh when I say they want to use Silverlight.
Does anyone here have much experience with Silverlight and can offer any gotcha's as to why it is worse/better than Flash? both have FB integration kits and can handle all of the functionality required... I'm mostly concerned about plugin penetration. Anything else I should be worried about?
Response from lead dev:
It depends on the game and the market he is catering for, but certainly plugin penetration would be a very valid concern. It’s a hard choice these days deciding on what technology to invest in.
Silverlight probably has penetration and compatibility issues. Flash is mature, but may be on its way out. HTML5 may be on its way in, but is immature and has some real performance issues depending on what you want to do. Personally I think JS is a TERRIBLE language to base a technology on….its probably the biggest bastard out there.
Tough one.
D.
Cool thanx.
Pretty much what I was thinking (I appreciate the validation). I was also considering HTML5 but had similar thoughts. It's the farmville market and genre they are hitting so I can't see how silverlight can be justified.
As for Flash being on the way out... in the mobile space for sure... web... well not for a while IMO... BUT this game spec could be realised using Flash Player 9... and it ain't going anywhere.
Thanx for the feedback Scud.
Silverlight is still just about breathing, and may be in use for some time for Windows Phone 7 development, but on the web, it's dead as a dodo. Microsoft are switching to HTML5 as their tech-du-jour for web apps
One article: http://www.thesmythgroup.com/2010/11/silverlight-for-web-apps-dead/ But hell just read anything from the search: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=silverlight+web+dead
Awesome. Thanx. I've been reading up on Silverlight and Windows Mobile but hadn't yet made the connection that MS were moving towards HTML5 for web apps. Says a lot really.
From the team lead
What D said. Depending on the market I may consider unity as well particularly if it is graphic intensive but penetration is still going to be an issue. If graphics is not super important I'd push hard for HTML5. I'd even limit the initial feature set if need be. Silver light would probably be bottom of the list for all the reason mentioned. Flash may yet be a good choice and hey you can always plan to rewrite.
Yeah, I think you'd be insane to pick anything but HTML5 or Flash for this, and I'd lean toward HTML5.
The only reason anybody has Silverlight installed is for Netflix.
I'd have to agree with everyone else regarding Silverlight. The penetration rate is currently only sitting around 65%-67% so avoiding it seems like a no-brainer.
Facebook gaming is a pretty crowded space these days too so, given the number of options available to people and the very nature of casual gaming, I'd wager that your bounce rate is going to be even higher than normal for plug-in installs. That's just conjecture of course but I'd have a hard time convincing myself that it's not the case.
Good luck. I'd love to see what you guys come up with when it's ready.
i would have to have a damn good reason to use flash these days, and it would have to be some highly interactive video scripting with bitmap filters, and thousands of sprites or some audio synchronized thing.
Why not flash though? The build would require player 9 or less (which works for android) and has a much greater plugin penetration than current html5 browser support. I'd prefer to go with HTML5 for personal reasons but need to make a case for all options and can't see any real issue with building for fp9.
It's an isometric farmville-like turn based multiplayer and with a fair amount of video.... It has a substantial budget so I'm looking at what works best for the most users and can deal with futureproifing down the track if I have to. Is hrml5 mature enough to convince the bean counters? I hope so but cNt yet see it.
Wahoo... I've managed to make an argument strong enough to have Silverlight removed from contention wipes brow
Now I just need to work out whether Flash or HTML5 is better suited.
Thanx for the help guys... it has been very useful thus far.
build it in flash with the idea of porting Version 2.0 to HTML5
Hi Arsis hope your doing well. Fb is evil to code with... good luck 
You could consider js and flash, but fb game is going to need to be maintained, so some strict typing will help take a look at these.
http://www.silexlabs.org/groups/labs/cocktail/
https://github.com/dionjwa/Hydrax
http://code.google.com/p/awe6/
you can untype parts of your views with pure js wrap them up and deal with a more structured language and with flash you can timeline some views and then wrap that up.
by April maybe other targets such as C# may possible, but I think you can output js silver light already?
It's easy to emulate backend by compiling some of the communication classes to php and just inherit them with different access for front and backend for your own testing, so if you struggle to get them providing what you need you can whip up a test and say... here look this works see this test now make the dot net work the same
And if your struggling with justifying the tech I am suggesting, then you can cite that .. m a n d e l a g a m e s are still using it for the flash and php code for fb apps, although their games are still not fun they are in real use on fb, and down under M a s s i v e are using these approaches for their cross platform applications such as inflight interfaces etc... for large corporates, and influxis have moved video services to it for cross target.
Wahooo... just about finished the spec. We're running with Flash until HTML5 has matured enough and then we will consider a port.
Now I just need to find myself a Flash dev genius and a couple of RoR folk.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2012/03/infographic-the-hype-versus-re.php
we just released our own facebook game made in flash:
http://www.facebook.com/idleWorship
it is virtually impossible to create a game like this using html5. i know, i sound like barn with the pinball thing, but yeah, this fucker was made with traditional disney style frame by frame animation so yeah, flash just made more sense to us.
play the game, bitches, it's actually pretty fricken awesome!
pats self on back
Originally posted by Stinky
Yeah, I think you'd be insane to pick anything but HTML5 or Flash for this, and I'd lean toward HTML5.
The only reason anybody has Silverlight installed is for Netflix.
QFT! It's basically dead except netflix.
don't forget about the olympics live stream. there was that too.